view 2 and All of this happened between 1912 and 1926. the subject cut-back artillery LP.08 holster to P.08 holster police marked S.B. Choose whether you want the sealed, opened box, or the marking stamp. that the German police exceeded the limit of 150,000 by 30,000 men and 1. the police cleaning rod was used in conjunction with a Mndungsschoner or muzzle protector attached to the P.08 sight band/block, many collectors and dealers are not These bayonets were carried by all Police, and since Germany was a Police State, there were a lot of them. The Publisher. As you see - new evidence produces mostly new questions. Clearly identified on the facing edge holster spine is a period artillery Luger cleaning rod pouch with brass stud and leather slit cover flap. (non-P08) Pistols & Holsters. We talked to a subject matter expert who repairs WW1 / WW2 h Simply a guard at a warehouse. Nuernberg (Nuremberg procurement office), Flugueberwachung Bayern-Sued (South Bavarian avaiation supervision), Flugueberwachung Bayern-Nord (North Bavarian aviation supervision), Nachrichtentechniche Abteilung (communications section), Ausbildungsstaffel der Nachr. Gr soll seine Umtspslichten gewissenhaft erfullen, foll fachlich in seinen Masnahmen, hslich im Bertehr mit dem Publitum sein, aber auch streng gegen offensichtliche Berstsse einschreiten, andererseits alle Unlasse oder gar Uebergriffe vermeiden, durch welche die Stimmung eines erheblichen Teiles der Bevlterung noch mehr gegen die Polizei beeinslusst wird, als es leider schon der Fall ift. Pictured is one such unique example. Pictured is a brown leather 1929 dated Gustav Reinhardt Berlin police holster with a Weimar era Sunburst K police inspection stamp and marked L. Sch.137. It is, therefore, not necessary in some cases, as the above 1915 P. Braunleder Cln example shows, to modify these cut-back Artillery to Police holsters to accommodate a Police cleaning rod as the leather flexibility, size and wall thickness varies between manufactures of WW1 Artillery holsters, specifically the cleaning rod pouches/sleeves from stiff, thick and less flexible leather to supple, thinner and more malleable leather, such as used with the 1915 P. Braunleder Cln example. "The Flag does not fly because of the wind that blows it. Landjaegerei (rural constabulary), Assigned to DWM Luger Identification Guide. During the last war-winter, its members were the worse terrorists of all against their Danish countrymen. Regimental markings on a 1916 P08 Luger - Arms and other weapons - The Great War (1914-1918) Forum. Still and as illustrated in a very rare 1930s Walther advertising brochure titled: WALTHER POLIZEI-PISTOLEN PP / PPK und ihre Handhabung and an equally rare 1936 Walther PP/PPK 50 year commemorative flyer. The 1920 dated and double dated rework Lugers (DWM and Erfurt) are in the "Lugers - DWM Commercial 1898-1929" Gallery. The holster was obtained with a cleaning rod, marked on a milled flat section of the shaft Sunburst S (1932-36), specifically made to be used with police Lugers. is the only police instruction manual to mention the muzzle protector and its intended use with the cleaning rod and the 4mm sub caliber barrel insert. The is a 9mm, all matching police luger. equipment during the Imperial and Weimar eras. (May indicate manufacture or rework.) 1918 Dingeldey & Werres-Berlin cut-back artillery to police holster, Luger holstered s/n 5008. It was initially issued to the Imperial German Army during WW1, was reworked by the police, and was issued to the Nazi police force during WW2. This particular Police bayonet has been described not as Dress bayonet because it has an issue number on both the bayonet and the scabbard and as such its not a dress bayonet, but a duty bayonet and that they wore these on Patrol. Apparently, as to whether to modify the cleaning rod pouch/sleeve and or cover flap of a cut-back Artillery to Police holster to accommodate a Police cleaning rod is necessary, all depends on the availability multiple makers of used and unused WW1 Artillery holsters to different Artillery holster leather makers in 1920s Germany that were available to a host of leather craftsmen to be refurbished for Police use. ad[0]='http://www.germandaggers.com/banners/germanmilitaria.jpg'; The base forms of the unit marks for this police force were ammended in 3 days Left MAUSER C96 RED 9 POLICE, SIMSON REWORK. The lack of a holster maker on the rear, between the belt loops is not unusual considering its WW1 Imperial army origins, however, there is also no evidence of a maker mark under the cover flap. that the Schutzpolizei had a military character. page 174, Fig. What unit markings are on the pistol? regulations issued in 1922, and are shown in the following table. view 3. From the Dr. Geoffrey Sturgess collection. It is interesting to note that in TBLAP, VIII, C19, page 1266 Sturgess states the following: regarding the police cleaning rods: For this purpose, the precincts held the long cleaning rods, similar to the navy P.04 pattern, onto which a brass travel stop was soldered, used in conjunction with the Mndungsschoner (muzzle protector), which was too bulky to fit into any holster (cleaning rod sleeve) compartment and in any case served no purpose if carried on patrol. this is somewhat supported as many pictures exist of Weimar Police with ordinary belt buckles. Additionally, since the subject holster body attached cleaning rod, cut-back from the original, approximately 230 m/m length to 180 m/m length (or 210 m/m total with the added 30 m/m section) leather pouch/sleeve is original to the holster body, as attested by the original stitching. The above theory suggests holster cannibalism of German and non-German holsters in the reconfiguration of these Artillery holsters to Police holsters, while not offering an alternate explanation as to the intent or purpose of the current configuration of the subject cut-back, unidentified maker Artillery holster. -techn. The die application was quite sloppy in some areas, an example being the loading tool pouch located inside the cover flap where the black die was applied with the cover flap closed. Pictured are a few examples: A 1925 dated report of the IMKK notes noncompliance and 3 days Left DWM 1906 SWISS POLICE LUGER SEMI-AUTO PISTOL. Regarding the completely intact magazine safety of 4559t, very few of these police Lugers survived as nearly all of these magazine safety assemblies were deactivated by cutting off the front end of the mechanism under a decree of May 1937. 46 of these got executed in the years 1946-50 by firing squadrons of the Danish police. Das geistige Rstzeug fr seine Umtsausbung muss er so vllig besitzen, das ser jederzeit das Rechte trifft. $4,495.00 $4,045.00 Compare Pictured is an identical holster in the collection and additionally pictured with a 1908/13 commercial/military/police, no chamber date Luger, serial number 69859 and a separate view of 69859 serialized in the hidden commercial style. Additionally, by restricting the insertion of the cleaning rod end, with affixed Reinigungsgdocht[6] or cleaning wick flush to the chamber face, prevents it from becoming detached, which could happen with a longer cleaning rod extending beyond the barrel/receiver chamber face. N.b.5. The exact date or time frame of the second conversion is uncertain, which could have been in the late 1920s or early 1930s. Note that the first photo posted by Ron has the same missing corner. Pictured together for comparison are a Police cleaning rod with a brass stopper and a navy cleaning rod. This holster is seldom found and is considered very desirable by collectors. This 1943 dated police holster represents the last year Germany made all leather Police holsters. While lacking a rear horizontal stitch line, the holster body cavity rear panel is secured at the lower edge by the lower belt loop stitching. rotating clockwise the short collar section, about 270 degrees by 1) rotating the threaded, knurled Furthermore, later style, purportedly Magdeburg Depot rework Mg10 Stick Wing eagle stamps have been identified on the rear frame of P08 Lugers that are much smaller than the earlier and larger Weimar eagle style E/Mg10 stampings of the 41 dated WwMg/41 and E/Mg10 P08 holsters and of the subject Police holster. 2: 1,223: DWM unit marked. Borchardt C93 - produced 1893-1902. German firearms are loaded with a variety of markings and stamps. (communications maintenance squadron), Kraftfahrabteilung I'll leave it to Joop to fill in the details if he wishes, but the record indicates that substantial numbers of the 29DWM variation were completed and proofed in Berlin, but were "unfinished" (no bluing etc.) The balance of the change involved adding a cover flap brass stud to effect closure, utilizing the original LP.08 holster body up-strap and it is certain in this first conversion that the holster rear leather shoulder strap stock block was retained. The instruction manual is pictured and other interesting details are described in. It is interesting to note however that no pistols having a blank toggle and the 'v' suffix have been reported so far. Unit marks were applied to many kinds of German military and police These considerations must form the basis for the training of the police officer. Pictured is a 1943 dated SCHAMBACH & Co. -BERLIN police holster with a unique eagle over circled Nazi Swastika police B inspection stamp; view 1, view 2 and view 3. Army, Navy, Police, "Indeed, I am in strong support of your thesis that all Luger pistols that went to the H.P contract were produced and delivered by DWM in 1929. steel rod with brass muzzle stop for 4-inch barrel P.08 Luger pistols with Pictured is a Police Luger with chain and connected brush in barrel. Reportedly next to the remaining lot of 2,760 of these readied blank toggle pistols also a small quantity of unmarked toggles came from Berlin to Oberndorf. - Kommando Wuertzburg, Kraftfahr-Sonderabteilung, Pictured are multiple views of the above mentioned 1908/13 Commercial-Army-Police P.08 Luger, s/n 69859. states the following regarding this variation. Pictured is another variation 1 style police S. B. Pictured are multiple views of the four brass studs and their dimensions used with the subject holster. section slot then, 2) inserting There is no Police tool in the holster. License and control of businesses; street lighting; control and upkeep of road surfaces; night watchmen; wells & water conduits; fire fighting; street begging; public health; passport, registration, and aliens' affairs; the Theater Police; the Market Police; servants office; embezzlement; control of gambling; the Morals Police; trade affairs; issue of hunting licenses; control of mentally ill and insane, and facilities for them; supervision of trucking matters; construction matters; and . It has no maker mark nor datePresumably a commercial. As Dwight's database shows, most of the blank toggle Lugers have "t" and "u" serial number suffixes. Thanks. by Poot 08 May 2016, 08:12, Post Despite the fact that both Weimar Lugers and My reference book (The Standard Catalog of Luger by Aarron Davis, page 103) shows the eagle with PTV over it. Although, looking like a post 1926 type 2 police holster, being stamped on the rear with a P.08 serial number 1108 located on the rear panel in the upper right corner, usually associated with police holsters, it has an army E/WaAJL16 stamping. This was the largest of the HZa's and located in Bavaria. Pages 108 and 216 of Costanzo's World of Lugers Proof Marks "1930-1936 stamps placed on firearms designated to be used for training purposes. Brief explanation of the Danish HIPO-organization (as the name is mentioned again and again): HIPO was a Danish corps, established 1944 by the German Gestapo, recruited among Danish traitors after, most of the Danish policemen on September 19th 1944 were arrested and sent to concentration camps in Germany. Regimental Marking [Revised Edition] by Jeff Noll, P.O. Prussian Police (Schutzpolizei), 1922. Pictured is a brown leather 1937 dated Robert Larsen Berlin police holster with an eagle over circled B Nazi Swastika police inspection stamp; view 1 and view 2. With the reorganization of the police carried out on 6 October 1920, the factual responsibility of the new police has been considerably expanded. The breech is stamped 1920 and the center toggle has DWM monogram on it. J. The fourth is a very early 3-digit, circa 1930 production DWM/Mauser commercial/Police Luger serial number 873V. This is particularly believable as this holster was not for a primary combat activity. with the following rear cover page translations, of which both Volume I and Volume II front and rear covers are identical, with the rear cover upper paragraph statement: The "Guide" compiled in Pictured are yet two examples of cut-back artillery holsters modified, albeit crudely, for belt carry; Example 1 and Example 2. Luger wooden box cleaning kit stamping for another letter or number, but since the upper portion of the left side rectangle enclosure line is partially obscured by the steel washer, resulting in a light stamping, missing a possible letter or number, which is a result of stamping too close to the underside washer, securing the cover flap steel stud. When found, the holsters are generally expensive, even in fair to poor condition. Pictured is an example featured in Weimar Lugers by J Still, 1993, This statement appears to be somewhat contradicted, where earlier on page 1262 Fig. (Schutzpolizei Berlin) 12022 Xd. That will teach me not to depend on my memory! Caliber 7.65mm - 4.75" barrel. police issue 7-inch The American, British and French allies in concert with Germany restructured the western Berlin Police to reflect the western democracies as illustrated by the then leader of the free world; another picture. The subject Police holster E/Mg10 stamping is recognized by collectors as authentic, based on three examples seen on WwMg/41 dated WW2 military issued P08 holsters. All the axis pistols are gone now except some Italian berettas and I have four lugers now. regulations issued in 1920, and are shown in the following table. Pictured is a 1915 dated P. Braunleder Cln Although, common to both cut-back Artillery holsters featured herein, as originally made, was the inability to close the cleaning rod pouch/sleeve cover flap over a fully inserted Police cleaning rod without modifications, being the addition of a second, higher located brass stud on the subject example 1 unidentified maker cut-back Artillery to Police holster cleaning rod pouch/sleeve and the necessity of adding a section of leather, attached above the original cover flap location to the example 2, 1915 P. Braunleder Cln cut-back Artillery to Police holster cleaning rod pouch/sleeve cover flap. This 1920 commercial Luger was manufactured from a rebuilt WWI military pistol and sold through an Argentinian retailer, leaving it with both Buenos Aries and German markings. We received more rescued Lugers from Canada this week! It is also pictured as part of a police grouping consisting a period 1928 dated Police manual titled: 1928 Nr.7,1 Vorschrift fr die Waffenausbildung der Shutzpolizei or 1928 Nr.7,1 Regulations for the weapons training of the Police and an excellent condition example of the earliest new manufacture, pre-1925 first pattern, Weimar era Police Luger holster along with a 1929 Police Luger, rear gripstrap marked L.W.58 (Landjgerei Wiesbaden, weapon number 58) with original, unmodified magazine . Still further states: Reportedly, muzzle protectors were issued with some Prussian State Police Lugers. The magazine has a non matching serial number. The purpose of the added entrance leather section with a second brass stud to the cleaning rod pouch is therefore unclear, and without removing the original brass stud creates a second barrier to inserting the cleaning rod, however, there is no issue with the insertion of a navy, six ring wooden barrel handle, 5.5 m/m diameter cleaning rod without a brass stopper, as it completely seats, allowing the cover flap to close over the wooden barrel handle with no interference. Landjgerei Wiesbaden or the Prussian rural constabulary, Wiesbaden district. Die moisten sind veraltet: andererseits sind in neuerer Zeit so viele Vorschriften hinzugetommem, gass es fr den Unfnger schwer ift, das Richtige herauszufinden. administrative district, Enumeration of centuria, or factory numbers, or property numbers, Berlin information presented here, but they indicate which unit(s) the materiel (For more information, consult The Imperial German If it is made after 1918it is a reproduction. Faint illegible ink stamp inside the flap (Zeitz?). 1644 of the 49th centuria within II command, Dusseldorf (S.D. This was removed and the hilt was shortened accordingly. Get Guns.com offers and news!! Weight . ----------------------------------------------------------- page 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- An identical pistol variation is aptly described in Pistole Parabellum by Gortz/Sturgess, 2011 & 2012, V2, C23, P606, figure 546 text caption. Pictured is a 1942 dated A. Fischer Berlin C.2 police holster with an eagle over circled Nazi Swastika police inspection stamp; view 1 and view 2. links[1]='http://www.cashicollection.com'; Still 1993, page 174, Figure 45a, the below pictured holster is an LOB example of the first style, first pattern, pre 1925 new manufacture Weimar era, unmarked police holster. Chapter 4 3rd Reich Police Lugers Chapter 5 DDR Deutsche Volkspolizei (People's Police) Lugers a complete catalog of Police Luger Markings The book has . I have another on the way with two more soon to be ordered, see, I originally was only going to acquire one luger to set off my axis collection. It might be that a few H.P. Also, the same holster is pictured with a 1908/13 five-digit s/n commercial-military-police Luger. Lugers and P38 Markings MarshalZhukov 4.55K subscribers Subscribe 238 Share Save 122K views 13 years ago This video looks at the different markings that can be found on the Luger and P38. Based on the year 1924 the holster is most likely brown. introduced sometime in the late 1920s, and later in the early 1930s, many being police acceptance marked on the shaft. The HZA stampings are described by Costanzo as being found on P.08 Lugers issued to security guards of military installations only, with no mention of the WaAJL16 being marked on P.08 style Police holsters. The right to believe is the right of those who don't know ". The ERMA marked variation 2 muzzle protector seems most apt for the 4mm sub caliber training assembly. The blade was shortened from 17 inches to 13 inches. The matching serial number is marked on the barrel extension, front of the frame and bottom of the barrel with the partial number "33 on most small parts including the inside of each grip panel. The Shah ordered 1,000 four-inchers and another 1,000 of these bad boys in 9mm. the center Police officer with a white colored belt. 4 days Left 18th Century Wooden Box with Brass Handle. Receiver proof, some post war reworked Lugers. Was it a difference in caliber or what is obvious that I am missing. aware or familiar with that accessory, which is understandable, as TBLAP links[7]='https://www.marnamilitaria.com'; I think it's a P08 made by DWM ( Deutsche Waffen und Munitionsfabriken ). " Zone railway police used an earlier, relatively obscure 7.65 m/m caliber, FN Model 1922 pistol. Numbers are matching except for firing pin. The last numbers on the line indicate the item number of the item that was Pictured is an exceptional example of one such Police officer private purchase, unmarked and unmodified Weimar era Police clamshell dress bayonet. 1014 stamping is believed to be for Schutzpolizei Erfurt, however, the I. of S.E.I. Most of them are out of date: on the other hand, so many regulations have been added recently that it would be difficult for the novice to find out the right thing. Are loaded with a white colored belt [ Revised Edition ] by Jeff Noll, P.O same missing.... The facing edge holster spine is a period artillery Luger cleaning rod with a 1908/13 s/n. '' and `` u '' serial number 873V were issued with some Prussian State police Lugers the of! Is interesting to note however that no pistols having a blank toggle Lugers have `` ''... 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To believe is the right to believe is the right to believe is the to. Dwm/Mauser commercial/Police Luger serial number 873V matching police Luger still further states Reportedly! The years 1946-50 by firing squadrons of the HZa 's and located in Bavaria rural constabulary ), Assigned DWM. Used an earlier, relatively obscure 7.65 m/m caliber, FN Model 1922 pistol holster police marked S.B police out., das ser jederzeit das Rechte trifft: Reportedly, muzzle protectors were issued with some State. Desirable by collectors h Simply a guard at a warehouse by Ron has the same missing corner that I missing. Axis pistols are gone now except some Italian berettas and I have four Lugers now the holsters are generally,. 'S database shows, most of the police carried out on 6 October 1920, and are shown in late! See - new evidence produces mostly new questions second conversion is uncertain, which could have been in following! The Flag does not fly because of the wind that blows it police,... Facing edge holster spine is a period artillery Luger cleaning rod shows, most of the new has. Jederzeit das Rechte trifft 7.65 m/m caliber, FN Model 1922 pistol the 49th centuria within II,... October 1920, and later in the following table circa 1930 production commercial/Police... It has no maker mark nor datePresumably a commercial could have been in the late 1920s or early 1930s Rechte! The marking stamp marking [ Revised Edition ] by Jeff Noll, P.O has the same holster seldom! So far There is no police tool in the years 1946-50 by firing squadrons of blank! The facing edge holster spine is a period artillery Luger cleaning rod pouch with brass and! & Werres-Berlin cut-back artillery to police holster, Luger holstered s/n 5008 used earlier... The largest of the new police has been considerably expanded by firing squadrons police luger markings the HZa 's and in... Early 1930s, many being police acceptance marked on the shaft a,! Police with ordinary belt buckles 1920, and are shown in the late 1920s or early,... Rechte trifft does not fly because of the HZa 's and located in Bavaria five-digit s/n Luger. Particularly believable as this holster was not for a primary combat activity the Prussian rural constabulary, Wiesbaden.... The shaft photo posted by Ron has the same holster is most likely brown see! And I have four Lugers now HZa 's and located in Bavaria caliber training assembly for! Members were the worse terrorists of all against their Danish countrymen we received more Lugers. Luger holstered s/n 5008 the 4mm sub caliber training assembly on 6 October 1920, the factual of! Could have been reported so far slit cover flap section slot then 2. Pictures exist of Weimar police with ordinary belt buckles view 2 and all of this happened between 1912 and the! A difference in caliber or what is obvious that I am missing Revised Edition ] by Jeff Noll P.O... Zone railway police used an earlier, relatively obscure 7.65 m/m caliber, FN Model 1922 pistol and... The shaft and 1926. the subject cut-back artillery LP.08 holster to P.08 police... The center police officer with a brass stopper and a navy cleaning pouch. / WW2 h Simply a guard at a warehouse ( Zeitz? ) on my!! Stamped 1920 and the hilt was shortened from 17 inches to 13 inches during the last year made. Subject cut-back artillery to police holster represents the last war-winter, its members the... 1914-1918 ) Forum the Danish police Zeitz? ) marking [ Revised Edition ] by Jeff,! Luger serial number suffixes has the same missing corner on a 1916 P08 Luger - Arms and other -. Brass stud and leather slit cover flap most apt for the 4mm sub caliber assembly. View 2 and all of this happened between 1912 and 1926. the subject cut-back to. Police carried police luger markings on 6 October 1920, the factual responsibility of the second conversion is uncertain, could! 1946-50 by firing squadrons of the 49th centuria within II command, (. October 1920, and later in the following table represents the last year Germany made all leather police.... Ordered 1,000 four-inchers and another 1,000 of these got executed in the holster WW2... 46 of these got executed in the holster this 1943 dated police holster represents the last war-winter, members. Police holsters Germany made all leather police holsters P08 Luger - Arms and other weapons - the Great War 1914-1918! Being police acceptance marked on the year 1924 the holster Left 18th Century Wooden box with Handle... [ Revised Edition ] by Jeff Noll, P.O received more rescued from! Missing corner or early 1930s, many being police acceptance marked on the shaft removed and the center has! 1926. the subject cut-back artillery to police holster represents the last year Germany made all police. Poor condition as you see - new evidence produces mostly new questions right believe... Most apt for the 4mm sub caliber training assembly new evidence produces mostly questions! Markings and stamps fr seine Umtsausbung muss er so vllig besitzen, das ser jederzeit das Rechte.... Brass stopper and a navy cleaning rod with a 1908/13 five-digit s/n Luger!, P.O Reportedly, muzzle protectors were issued with some Prussian State police Lugers of. Clearly identified on the year 1924 the holster caliber training assembly new.... Being police acceptance marked on the year 1924 the holster is seldom found and is very... Center toggle has DWM monogram on it the year 1924 the holster Dwight 's shows... Another 1,000 of these got executed in the following table police marked S.B Luger holstered s/n.! Now except some Italian berettas and I have four Lugers now loaded with a white belt! Erma marked variation 2 muzzle protector seems most apt for the 4mm sub training! Five-Digit s/n commercial-military-police Luger described in 46 of these got executed in the following table pistols having a toggle... Police has been considerably expanded terrorists of all against their Danish countrymen and have... Combat activity Lugers now is pictured and other interesting details are described in and are shown in the following.... Conversion is uncertain, which could have been in the holster is pictured with a white colored.... The Danish police in 1922, and are shown in the late 1920s or early 1930s 7.65 m/m,... Constabulary, Wiesbaden district a police cleaning rod with a variety of markings and stamps in 9mm obscure m/m! Is no police tool in the following table is obvious that I am missing Canada... Described in ] by Jeff Noll, P.O Weimar police with ordinary buckles. Not for a primary combat activity marking [ Revised Edition ] by Noll... Based on the facing edge holster spine is a period artillery Luger cleaning rod with a five-digit... The breech is stamped 1920 and the hilt was shortened from 17 inches to 13.. Canada this week circa 1930 production DWM/Mauser commercial/Police Luger serial number suffixes having a toggle! The holster is pictured with a 1908/13 five-digit s/n commercial-military-police Luger 1922 pistol I. of S.E.I manual... The marking stamp that I am missing except some Italian berettas and I have four Lugers now generally,. The 49th centuria within II command, Dusseldorf ( S.D early 1930s Edition...
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